Part 2 of 2 [Read Part 1 Here]
Guest writer, and ladies’ man extraordinaire, Cameron Teone is here to get you thinking on a different track.
- Problem 4: Frequency of Cocky/funny
At some point, there has to be a real person inside the cocky/funny shell. Back when I was reading dating advice, I remember someone asking a question from the cocky/funny guru regarding its usage. He asked, “I used some lines to tease her. She was eating it up and having a good time. At what point should I stop?”
The writer of cocky/funny manifesto replied back, “What is wrong with you? What would you ever stop busting her balls? That’s what has gotten you thus far. Why would you ever stop now?”
That, right there, is perhaps one of the single worst pieces of advice ever written on dating. After incessantly “Busting her balls” on a date, I once had a woman tell me that she wasn’t enjoying our interaction and that she wanted to go home. It was a bit disturbing to me, since I was following the cocky/funny motto and berating her nonstop. Hey, by all accounts she should have been all over me. With that much cocky/funny, she should have been proposing marriage to me. I guess she just didn’t like being picked on by some guy who had asked her out on a date.
Teasing properly can be fun and it can enhance the interaction by making more interesting and flirtatious. However, at some point, there has to be a real person there. At some point, a man and a woman have to establish some rapport and have a real conversation, even if it’s something as simple as where they grew up or what they studied in college. Making fun of a person’s reply every time gets to become very obnoxious very quickly.
This does not mean you stop teasing completely. Rather, you sprinkle it in. Imagine teasing as if it were table salt. You want to sprinkle a bit of salt on your meal to give it a kick but you can easily overdo it and ruin the meal.
In fact, use the table-salt analogy to your advantage from now. Here is the formula: More teasing in the beginning of the interaction, and less teasing as you build rapport. At this point, use it as table salt. Use accordingly but don’t over do it.
Recap:
Men have been taught to be cocky/funny. They are taught “To bust a woman’s balls” which, by the way, has to be one of the most moronic idiomatic expressions ever. If a woman you’re talking to actually has balls, you probably should move on. They never mention that part! But let’s digress
How did this advice come to exist?
It’s not that the people promoting cocky/funny manifesto necessarily had bad intentions or meant to dupe or deceive you. It’s just that they did not know any better themselves.
They were not touting advice because they had discovered something that worked for them. Rather, they were making observations of other people that had a working model, but the observers never understood the nuts and bolts of it. They didn’t understand the nuances of it. On top of that, they weren’t really guys who understood dating and attraction. They were marketers.
It’s disconcerting to receive emails from angry men who have fallen flat on their faces repeatedly through the use of cocky/funny. Hopefully, after reading this article, you have an understanding of how to apply cocky/funny and understand its application in human social interactions.
What to take away from this article, especially if you’re one of the guys who has experienced severely poor results from using cocky/funny:
- Don’t use insulting lines. Learn to be playful and confident, childlike. The source of your confidence comes from your aura and demeanor, not from insults.
- Understand the type of women you’re interacting with. (Are you talking to a girl who looks she just walked off a porn set or are you talking to a woman who is an artist or someone who is very spiritual and reads Deepak Chopra for breakfast?)
- Make sure your personality is congruent with your approach. Again, take a look at Vince Vaughn in Swingers and Robert Downey jr. in Iron man. Understand that cocky-funny is part of an attitude and personality, not just lines.
- Learn to cut back on teasing, establishing rapport, and using the salt shaker analogy. More teasing early on, but as the interaction progresses, use it sporadically.
If you make these corrections, your success will rise. At the very least, you’re going to continue a normal interaction without getting “Blown out” because of some insulting line you learned from some guy who didn’t have grasp of the concept himself. On top of that, you now have a sense of timing, as to WHEN to tease, and when to pull back on it.
Cameron has his own blog and offers an excellent Audio Course, a 16-CD program which is pure pickup dynamite for most any guy. Cameron will also be presenting at our upcoming seminar in March, “The Complete Toolbox Seminar“.
(5 votes, average: 3.4 out of 5)
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February 13th, 2009 at 10:43 am
Cameron, Great insights and distinctions! I really like David D’s stuff but it does need a little fine tuning. I very much respect that you are not mindlessly drinking the Kool-Aid that he is serving up. I am looking forward to checking out some of your materials. I’ve seen you at Cliff’s List convention.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
“at some point, there has to be a real person there. At some point, a man and a woman have to establish some rapport..” :)
Well duuhh, of course we should(or should we?) already or at least assume to not LITERALLY continuously bombard her w/ c+f every second. C+F is only an attraction TOOL, it’s not a single handed formula for closing her emotionally, physically, and logistically! What the c+f correspondent meant by advising “to never stop doing cf” was to always “pack” the c+f heat and apply when neccessary.. EVEN after the first date would turn into a marriage.
Its a bit sad but true, ill admit the cf mentor was an observer(to a degree), and just didnt plain teach cf enough w/ clarity. However aspiring puas can benefit very much through teachers who did all the observerving for us just as I have. This allows us to gather all the best bits, peices and characteristics from the “observed” puas, and naturally match these peices to our own character.
I think us guys have this problem of pushing the “easy” button(cf) that makes girls laugh, too much. Out of laziness we skip the entire dating system that is neccessary to begin a relationship w/ a girl, and only use the easy cf button. Us guys want the least work and leave out all the Rapport, Commonalty, and Leading routines. So its somewhat our fault as well.
p.s. The“To bust a woman’s balls” phrase takes all the good femeninity out of our prize.
February 13th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
RE: ‘The writer of cocky/funny manifesto replied back, “What is wrong with you? What would you ever stop busting her balls? That’s what has gotten you thus far. Why would you ever stop now?”
That, right there, is perhaps one of the single worst pieces of advice ever written on dating.’
All well and good, as always, Cameron.
But since the article did not contain the words “just be yourself”, there was therefore no mention of the worst dating advice ever given.
February 17th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
This article has some good points, but it seems to me that Cameron did not really get the whole point of being cocky and funny. The thing is, it must be funny for HER not for YOU. No matter what you think, if she’s not laughing, it’s not C&F. Not only that, as a good comedian, you should NOT laugh at your jokes while she IS laughing.
Cameron, if the woman you mention remarked not enjoying the conversation, I’m betting you whatever you want that she was not laughing at your, supposedly C&F, comments. The comments were funny for you, not for her.
Anyway, the table salt analogy is a great one. And incidentally, even David D mentioned more than once to use it “as a spice”. And, most importantly, his real advice always was “Take it as a learning experience and slowly, but surely, you’ll develop the feeling of how to use it. Keep what works and discard the rest.”
Finally, the example C&F lines you use in the 1st part of the article are more of the “neg” type proposed to be used with super hot chicks. The ones that look like they just come off a porn set. And David D wasn’t really advocating this kind of opener.
All in all, I think the article is a good one, but the Cocky and Funny concept has been greatly misunderstood.
February 17th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
I love your advice; it’s so true!
I have read the material of David D and I must say that for me, this concept has done more harm than good. I am indeed not congruent, I’m not the Vince Vaughn type of man so to speak. So there were way more occassions where the girl felt insulted / turned off than there were successes. I do like teasing however. But my problem is that I can only do this when I feel really good and confident, which is clearly not always the case.
February 18th, 2009 at 6:07 am
I really like your article, man. It basically summed up a heap of different things that I’ve come to realise through practicing David D’s methods.
I also really feel you, Lieven. Because I have the exact same issues.
For me, and for virtually other guy I know, it isn’t a LINEAR method of progression. Some days we rock. Others, we suck. For me at least, and a lot of other guys I know, it’s a point of great frustration - we never feel like we’re getting anywhere because we can’t adopt “the persona” whenever we want. It’s really mood dependent, and for guys like me that have more radical mood changes, it often feels like we have absolutely no control over whether we succeed or not. We just have to be in the right “mood” for it.
The solution, which I think I’m gradually finding, is something more along the lines of Cameron’s article. You can’t keep up being someone who you really aren’t for very long; eventually you’re either going to f*ck up, crack under the pressure or just collapse because you feel so drained. Instead, you need to work with what you HAVE, and who you really ARE, and develop that into something that you know will be attractive. Saying “you need to be cocky and funny to attract women” is just so narrow minded. Sure, it WORKS - but you can’t be cocky and funny all the time. Some days, you just don’t feel like it.
I think that we need to be aware of the theory - what’s attractive, the body language, cocky/funny, all that stuff, BUT what is infinitely more important is ADAPTING THIS FOR OURSELVES. We need to learn how to use the assets we possess to develop our own consistent styles that work for us.
Like, I myself know that I’m not a total extrovert and that I can’t be energetic all the time. That whole adventurous personality doesn’t work for me. Instead, I focus on being totally relaxed; deep voice, slow movements, powerful presence, etc. I’m also a film student; one of the really effective things I’ve found is vividly describing films and cinematography, or passionately discussing certain scenes from movies and what I love about them. Girls eat this up.
Anyway, I’ve rambled on for too long. Just my two cents.
Dell.
February 22nd, 2009 at 6:19 pm
Does anyone else think a large portion of “the cocky/funny” guru’s materials are mostly flash and words, and kinda sparse on the substance?
I dunno maybe it’s just me……
February 22nd, 2009 at 6:33 pm
hantheman, the “substance” from cocky/funny should come from within the person himself.
My feeling is that what has been out there for cocky/funny is like recipe books which contain info on the raw materials, the name of the dishes, but not enough on how to actually cook or bake to end up with something tasty.
It’s like saying to someone “to be a great comedian, be funny”. That by itself doesn’t give someone a sense of humor, it just says what works for that kind of job. Helping someone understand HOW to have a sense of humor is more tricky and takes more finesse to teach.
The advice also of “to interest more women, be more confident”, which by itself is not wrong, just incomplete. Cocky is a crude form of confidence.
Now when you mix the 2 together, there certainly has to be A LOT more than just saying what to be, because by itself is not wrong, but unless more finesse is used in the teaching, far to many guys will get it wrong. That’s not to say all guys have the potential to get it right, but it certainly means that there is more to it than the surface and what makes it work is not what’s on the surface, but what is beneath.
April 21st, 2009 at 10:15 am
I couldn’t have said it better myself, Dell.
August 1st, 2009 at 12:31 am
Hi guys,
I just wanted to say that from a woman’s perspective the whole cocky and funny thing, is very undermining, especially when you find out it has been used on you.
While my ex-boyfriend revealed to me later on that he had studied these techniques, I often found early on that I would leave intreactions with him feeling kind of insulted and some of the things he would say were just not that funny and sometimes embarressing. He would constantly talk to strangers with the c&f routine and I found it annoying and inappropriate at times.
I was often left thinking wtf? but I did like him, however, throughout the relationship I was always thinking that there had to be more to him or that he was hiding something.. I think it was, in the end, quite detrimental to the relationship, however, I will never know to what extent I really liked him. Such a pity. I get why some of you need to improve your confidence but it shouldn’t be at the expense of your woman. If it doesn’t feel real then don’t do it, a woman will just discover that it isn’t really you in the end which will only lead to disappointment and more insecurity.
Anyways, that’s my opinion. I feel quite confused about the whole thing now.
August 1st, 2009 at 10:56 am
Peta,
My personal take on your ex-boyfriend is more that he was kind of a hack at doing “cocky & funny” and also was dumb enough to admit actually having a plan of how to win your attraction.
Let me give you some insight into (all) men, and perhaps this is the type of thought which will ruin your day or sour your perception of relationships in general: ALL men put together a plan of how they’ll win over a woman’s attraction. Very few men have to actually work at it and, sorry, there are not enough of those men to go around for all women. So, really, it boils down to how effective some men’s plans are versus others. They all will do things differently, some focus on one aspect of their life, some will focus on another, some will do it poorly, some will do it smartly — but they ALL have a plan. They have a plan when they first decide to approach, when they do approach, and how they follow through. The men who fail miserably are the ones who don’t have this “plan” down naturally (or are not one of the few men who don’t need to do anything) AND try to simply “be themselves”. FAIL.
So whether a guy chooses to use c&f or something else, it mostly boils down to how effective they are at that plan, how well they can make it work for themselves, and how well they even understand it. So, your ex is your ex NOT because he used c&f (if that’s what attracted you to him initially, regardless of what you might wish or believe) then that will work on you again with the next guy. He’s your ex because he did it poorly, at least with you, and especially the longer you were in a relationship.
Something like c&f, or whatever other distinct method used by “PUA” types these days is just stuff that’s been broken down by observing guys who are natural with women and emulating. Some guys are better at it than others, and some guys also allow it to help them change themselves so that they’re not simply applying a “technique”, they are literally working on themselves for it to become part of their nature, part of how they build themselves up to be more attractive, in general, to women.
Perhaps your ex is on some blog now talking about you (his ex) and how the longer you were in a relationship with him, the more he noticed that your physical attractiveness might be based on makeup, push-up bras, the way you dress, or the way you take care of yourself, or color your hair, or style your hair, All of those things are superficial, but you probably do them anyway to do what you know will help you to be more attractive - and many times in relationships people get lazy and they stop “working” at things to keep such attraction going.
Every time you put on lipstick, you’re not doing it because it is natural for females to do it (there’s no gene for “lipstick”) - you do it because it makes you more attractive to men. Yet, you don’t think twice about it, you just do it, and you’ve done it probably since you were 11 or 12 years old so, by now, it’s become natural to you.
Now imagine a guy who’s in his mid-20s or mid-30s who realizes he’s not been doing the equivalent for males of being a more attractive male (dominated mostly by personality and behavior than the way he looks) and realizes he needs to correct that and is now a guy in his 20s or 30s trying to make such behavior a natural part of him. Imagine if you only started learning how to put on lipstick or makeup. It’s, basically, the same kind of thing.
So, don’t let the fact that your ex applied c&f poorly or told you about it cause you to be perplexed at how to deal with men who have an active plan on how to win & keep your attraction - realize & accept that ALL men have plans in place. Some just do it better than others and some, by a certain point due to experience, are more natural at it than others. Very very few men will BE what women desire them to be because that is the way they were born or the way they would turn out since the age of 5. If you find such a man for yourself, congrats, but you’ll never really know if you’ve found THAT kind of man or simply one who’s got his act together and is conscious about it the same way you probably by now have your act together in terms of makeup & other props to win the attraction of men.
Perhaps that’s a downer of a thought, but at least it clears up your confusion, and perhaps it has given insight to our male readers to understand it’s not the application of pickup/attraction/seduction strategies which is at question here, it’s HOW WELL those things are understood and HOW WELL they are executed.
August 12th, 2009 at 4:04 am
Hmmm… simply put, the major difference being wearing push up bras and lipstick and what-have-you is that it is not intended to confuse you or undermine you. Your advice seems altogether too simplistic, and a little condescending.
August 13th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
Did you want a complicated answer and shared in a way as to not risk the feeling of being condescended to?
Sometimes it IS that simple, and I can’t control how you feel.
Here’s what you say: “wearing push up bras and lipstick and what-have-you is that it is not intended to confuse you or undermine you”. Where exactly is it implied that a man who chooses to make himself more attractive to women through his personality or actions is somehow being confusing or undermining?
If you feel my statements are condescending, then you’re reacting to the circumstance and not my words. You don’t have to take it personally. It seems women often-times perceive that men who modify their behavior to be more attractive is somehow sneaky or wrong - because it’s not stamped on their forehead.
So, to the guys reading this, take note of female logic:
- If you do certain things as a man that make you attractive to a woman, but do so naturally, as part of your nature, even if it’s “button pushing” or otherwise taking advantage of how men & women function, it’s irrelevant and even preferred since women WANT a man who they can be attracted to.
- If you do the SAME EXACT things and get the same results, but if those things are contrived (done consciously), then it’s bad.
Note that the only bearing the second scenario has is:
- If you apply such things poorly
- If you announce you are acting not by your default nature
So the solution is to simply learn to apply things PROPERLY (not just read one newsletter or ebook & start regurgitating words) and also eventually have the changes in behavior become a part of your personality so that you simply do them naturally.
Women will still continue to like and be attracted to certain kinds of men, behaviors, actions, personalities, etc. Usually what they are upset about is only that they can’t CONTROL this attraction (no more than men can control what they’re PHYSICALLY attracted to) and also if they ever find that a man they’re attracted to has CONTRIVED the behavior (he becomes incongruent).
This is just plain fact, not condescending. The earth spins on an axis and circles around the sun. Those are facts, too. It’s just reality. We can either work with reality or be the victims of it.
January 11th, 2010 at 7:13 pm
Button pushing only works if you’re pushing the right buttons. Just the same as a bad joke, if you come off as an asshole or a jerk, instead of coming off as funny, you will just look like an asshole. Basic motto - if you don’t have it, don’t flaunt it. A nice shy guy can be just as attractive as a clown.
Worst of all, men’s egos are unduly boosted because some women will laugh at their boyfriend’s button pushing, inane jokes, etc. out of habit or complacency. I myself am guilty of this. My ex still thinks he’s hilarious and a great button pusher and he’s neither. I was only attracted to the enthusiasm behind his jokes, and never at the jokes themselves. He walked away from the relationship convinced he was hilarious, I walked away from it rolling my eyes. I apologize to the next woman that dates him for having given so many white lies, I mean, white laughs.